Women’s Army and Jhansi Rani

“My short skirt is a liberation flag in the women’s army,” they read. “I declare these streets, any streets, my vagina’s country.”

they read the Vagina Monologues aloud and then they were suspended

So sad. What about those men who were fired for using the “V” word at work.


and back in India on this Women’s day,

‘A study on all aspects related to women officers in the armed forces, including induction in combat roles was conducted under the aegis of the Chiefs of Staff Committee -,’ Defence Minister A.K. Antony said in a written reply in the Rajya Sabha. ‘The study has recommended exclusion of women officers for the present in close combat roles where chances of physical contact with the enemy are high,’ Antony added.

Neihal, says Women’s right activists have “slammed the findings of the study as the height of male chauvinism”

What is with this male chauvinist (but armed) pigs, this is the height of discrimination, that too in the land of the great and “highly successful in battle” Jhansi Rani. And whats with this “Physical contact” , haven’t these morons heard about this thingy called “Guns” which other armed forces in the rest of the world have successfully put into use. Don’t tell me we settle disputes with Pakis by playing kabaddi and wrestling (extreme physical contact conditions) – Indian army had decommisioned those weapons after the Chinese routed us.

Does anyone remember those rape cases, remember Jaffna of 87 ? Having women in the army*provided they have guns* will arguably reduce the chance of sexual abuse – well who knows. Now about winnability and compromising national security, when was the last time we fought a full fledged war – 1971 ? did we actually see the enemy in Kargil, let alone physical contact. So let these women be, give them whatever they want. Do whatever is needed to shut those feminists up. Oh those shrill voices.

According to me, all our Jhansi Ranis in short skirts must be given the freedom to go to hell in any frickin way they want. Say NO to discrimination in combat roles in Indian Armed Forces !!

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17 Responses to Women’s Army and Jhansi Rani

  1. alakananda March 9, 2007 at 1:36 am #

    huh? what exactly was ur rant against? oh, don’t u love those feminists? don’t they provide u with so much entertainment?:)ahem, i hope brushes are not coming out to tar and feather me… as being a traitor to mine own gender.
    but that aside, if women want to fight with guns, let them. and yea, people/ministries can stop being so ‘patronizing’. oh, enthoru sushkaanthi. protecting women from physical contact. my foot! if they r so bothered, how about doing something about those crowded buses where women are often forced into ‘close physical combats’?

  2. clash March 9, 2007 at 9:18 am #

    Liked the “V” part of the post.

    Hope ladies wont put in us trouble; while fighting.. A scratch on the face to be wiped with a tissue, the ring on the right hand being loose, the stone on the left ear ring falling of, the lover boy’s picture to be kept intact, the thought about the pedicure and manicure for all those dirt inside nails.

    What the hell why am i having so much grease on my “fair” facial skin??

    I hope.. the army outfits for women will have enough pockets to hold all these together.

    Wont they feel the arsenal is a bit too much to carry along with all these?

    I wonder…

  3. Anonymous March 9, 2007 at 9:18 am #

    MCP Thampurane,

    athrakku vendayirunnu ;))))

    ~NJ

  4. Anonymous March 9, 2007 at 6:20 pm #

    Ya, u guys are right

    Let those men who don’t have to bother about cracked nails and scratched skin fight on the field. Let the ladies be at the helm and devise strategies. I am sure the world will be a “peacer” place to live in.

    ~NJ

  5. b v n March 9, 2007 at 10:34 pm #

    Alakananda,
    സൂക്ഷ്മമായ ഒരു എതിരെഴുത്ത് അല്ല
    ഒരു ചെറിയ ചിരി

    in a country where the girl child is killed because she is a girl, under nourished because she is a girl and subjected to domestic violence sporadically, the last thing we need are reactionary feminists and their antics. Happy women’s day 🙂

    clash, you are in very dangerous terrain dude :))….btw tonite i’m watchin jesus camp

    Nina, well you are right, women never went to war. we are all yours to lead 🙂

  6. Jiby March 10, 2007 at 12:10 am #

    bvn, at the root of the problem is the mentality within the army…on this issue politicians are just keeping the top brass happy! thanks to the still preserved colonial inheritance and training these army guys at NDA/IMA come out as perfect gentlemen who see women as perfect ladies just meant for hosting parties, doing social work, etc, etc.

    NJ, well said!

  7. alakananda March 10, 2007 at 12:10 am #

    @ clash.

    and how many ‘real women’ you actually know are more bothered about these things?
    we do bother about small matters, agreed. maybe our chromosomes are programmed to do so. but we do that only when there is nothing else more important to worry about.(like pondering upon the best part of the anatomy of the guy behind her in a crowded bus, trying to cop a feel – so that she can stick a safety pin right in.(why do u think they r called ‘safety’ pins?) or wondering how she was going to put food into the mouths of a couple of hungry kids,or trying to shield her daughters, sometimes even pre-teen ones, from the rabid gaze of perverts. or trying to finish off work at office early so that she can go back home, cook dinner and help the kids finish their science projects.or simply thinking of a snappy retort to the nasty comment of an ‘eve-teaser’.)
    not every woman goes,”but dahling, i haven’t a thing to wear,” or ” do you think the french manicure or the jewel manicure would go with my new shoes?”. get real and take ur head off those soap opera clouds.
    as for trying to keep a loved one’s picture safe. YES we do it. because like i said, small things do matter to us. a fact pig headed guys like u have never been able to get into the big fat skulls of urs.
    now please note, i am not an ultra feminist or a door mat. call me a traditional feminist if u will. all i have to tell u is ‘just let us women be, to go on doing what we like to do-whether getting manicures or saving the planet’. we neither need patronizing nor crushing. just mutual respect and freedom (sorry alex). is that too much to ask for.
    hey, may be u were just joking. but i was sick and tired of a whole lot of MCP comments/blogs/articles/jokes this women’s day. i grinned and bore them. unfortunately u were the last straw. 🙂 nothing personal…

    bvn,

    i don’t much favor the radical feminists or their ideologies either.

  8. Anonymous March 10, 2007 at 8:02 am #

    these guys (not personal) give us no choice but to be feminist. rather, they just brand us feminist if we ever open our mouth for any of our rights. they expect us to be those soap opera heroins and if we are not, we are those “society lady” feminists. nothing more, nothing less.

    we are expected to be living a life out of romantic novels. oh …….. pls. come out and see, how tough it is to be a woman. “safety” pins are just tip of the iceberg. i know this old man in this “corporate” world who has asked for a one night favor to a aquaintance of mine. a colleague who thinks every other woman is willing to sleep with him. despite being told i am open to travel for my job, ppl who try to do a “favor” by avoiding that for me, thereby dumping huge loss in experience for me. a fnd of mine going thru tough times as she is the only girl in the team and they don’t understand why can’t she stay back till late night and work. my own aunt living in a pathetic rotten marriage ‘cos the social trauma doesn’t allow her to seek a divorce where as her brother could do it as they feel he can easily get another wife/life. then this neighbor of ours who told my father why he was letting me do a mono-act on the stage despite being a girl. man ……. i just don’t understand what sort of creatures u are !!!!!!!

    if nothing else, can’t u atleast mind ur own business.

    it is easy to be a man and say you sympathise or to make cartoons of us. laugh when we care if u had lunch/dinner. mock when we want to look good (which is for u p—). but if we ever display that we are stronger than u or we have an existence without u, u feel insecure.

    if these radical feminists at whom you guys were jeering now weren’t there, women folk would have still been living a sub standard lives. they may sound ridiculous at times, but we owe them quite a lot.

    when you can talk for war victims, kids and minorities and become humanitarians, why talking for females have to be some degraded “feminists”? when ppl do rightly get alarmed at the condition of Muslims in the country, why is that the report on women don’t make much of noice?

    in this particular issue, i do feel women may not have the physical stamina to go for it. i am not sure how physically demanding it is.

    i am not disagreeing on this particular case. this comment is about the general taunt used in ur post and clash’s comment.

    we don’t need ur sympathy, we are capable on our own.

    every female child born is a feminist. you make them one. we have no choice.

    nothing personal here. just a general venting out. ;)))

    ~NJ

  9. b v n March 10, 2007 at 11:26 am #

    Jiby, even before colonial times there weren’t many women in combat roles, rather any. Akbar had around 300 wives and 4000 concubines, that is like golden age of our culture 🙂 , thats our legacy. Change is needed in the army’s thought process, but it should permeate from a broader change in the societial roles i guess.

    Alakananda, I do believe in radical feminism rather thats the only feminism that is important.

  10. b v n March 10, 2007 at 11:34 am #

    Nina, There was a “general taunt” in the post and it stays, eves and brigadiers are welcome :-). I rechecked my earlier comment, it does not say “radical” feminists, it says “reactionary” feminists – there is a difference between both.

    I do believe in radical feminism and it is perhaps the most vital movement on which’s success the, future of humanity depends a lot. As a socio-political movement, it is very much in the left . There is no other political movement, organisation, group that addresses women as a class and issues from a “womens” interest alone other than feminism. there are other movements which have “welfare of women”, “equality for women” as collateral gains but not their single point agenda, thats where feminism becomes important. And i’m aware of it.

    I don’t think I need to elaborate on the “women in combat role” report, I’m so sad they are not allowed in combat roles, they should be. But when you are addressing 5000 years of civilisation and 500 million years of evolution, if you are serious about what you are trying to achieve, you need to pick your battles very carefully, you cannot be a reactionary, else you’ll be left with your monolouges(see even Alakananda is tired of feminists). feminists of today (yr 3rd wave or whatever) look ridiculous. Yes ridiculous. the new waves of feminism is not based on the basic realities of our times(like before), but some vodoo science. they are trying to prove some points, check it out yourselves – i’m not going there.and the root of the problem is these feminists want to afterall revel in the acceptance of the male, that sells feminist movement out.

    you said “we don’t need ur sympathy, we are capable on our own.every female child born is a feminist. you make them one. we have no choice”,that sounds contradictory

    When this girl comes by my desk bends down and says “please kar donaaa”,i do her work as well. Thats not sympathy, thats exploitation. You girls are exploiting us knowing that we can’t resist. we need sympathy, not you.

    Men are stronger because we know what we want – Women. you are weak because you have no clue of what you want – neither do we 🙂

    p.s : someone just said female brain is smaller than male brain and less gray matter too it seems(whatever that is)…hehe…this is unconfimred…male propanganda most pbly 🙂

  11. Anand K March 10, 2007 at 7:11 pm #

    Hand to hand combat is the norm in the COIN and HAW fronts the Indian Armed Forces operate in. For instance in Kargil, the 2 Rajputana Rifles lost all four Coy commanders in two seperate bayonet charges at Tololing Ridge. Gren. Yogendra Yadav and Lft Manoj Pandey won their PVCs in bitter melees in the Paki Sanghars and Bunkers, the exploits of the latter akin to Major Winter’s epic charge at Brecort Manor. The Rashtriya Rifles M.O in close quarter battle is studied diligently even at West Point (and even at Voroshilov and Frunze academies, despite the Russkies being the pioneers in modern urban combat)….
    Even .50 caliber guns are sometimes useless in the pillboxes of West Punjab and the Rock Sanghars of Kashmir. You need men on the ground with bayonets and Khukris out there….

    In a nation such as ours with limited resources and limited defense budgets (a tenth of the US defense budjet), we can’t change the national security policy just for political correctness or brownie points. I must say despite all the Omar Khalidi-Sachar jockeying and power plays, the MoD has done a very good job at this. IIRC we tried to include women in fighter wings too but apparently when the scramble order was given, they were not able to close the difficult Mig canopy on time. In the severely constricted cockpit space with specially (slim waist) designed seats, women who have different bone structure from men faced discomfort. Considering the fact that CAP missions can last for nearly 12 hours (with air refueling), this is not a minor issue. Another area of concern and study) is availability and combat performance during menstrual period…. which as one can imagine cannot be generalized and consequently some sort of remedy can be tailored in a short span. In a US with a fleet of 4000 fighters in the UAF and 2000 fighters in the USN, the availablity of pilots in case of a “scramble” is not a big issue. Still… only a handful of women are used in fighter wings, majority of women going to airlift/mobility or strike wings (where the US can decide time and place). However, in India with a fighting fleet of 800 birds, this is a big problem.

    It’s not that the Indian state doesn’t want to include women in active combat, it’s just that it will take some time to make the small changes, acclimatize the ordinary Class XII pass jawan into serving with (or under) a woman. Just because a few shrieking anarcho-feminists wants women in the Sukhois from the next mission doesn’t mean the state can deliver that. It must be noted that there ARE a laudable number of women in the infantry (though in second line troops) and in military intelligence. And they WILL be called to battle, recieve wounds or death, face the prospect of capture-torture AND rape (our arch-enemies are the sub-human Paki wannabe Ghazis from Binori Madrassa, no longer the old professional fighting force it once was) when the time comes….

    PS: No army uses women in COIN duty as far as I know…. apparently they have problems dealing with hostile civilians and enemies hiding amongst them. One place they can really succeed is submarine wing, ‘coz women can handle claustrophobia (and isolation) better.

  12. alex March 13, 2007 at 4:19 am #

    🙂

    I say ‘No’.

    But for feminists, there wouldn’t be a balance. There isn’t a balance even now as BVN said, children are getting killed and are looked down upon.

    Freedom yes. 🙂 That is all i wish for.

  13. clash March 13, 2007 at 4:50 am #

    Haaa.. Radical or Conservative.. I was just wondering. Yeah, i dont know much about ladies; but most of them i see now, dont care much about their counterparts.

    For all you radicals : I know that the per capita food consumption of ladies in India (Now) is less than that of what it was during the Bengal famine, this is attrocious, but how many lady bloggers around write about all these? how many voice out their protest? How many radicals (feminine) are interested in these? After all, a BVN was needed to bring out this issue.

    I hope.. ladies will finish off with their endless story telling and poetry writing to “Fight”

    Am… wondering – I feel like an anti-semite! Thats the way it is.. I am not a perpetual violator of this male-female equilibrium, but i still will be called a MCP, because thats the way it is – You utter anything against Israel- you are an anti-semite, and if you utter against ladies – MCP! But i am done with these stories and poetries they dole out. Supposedly the blogging ladies are those who are free and what not – But i rarely see them addressing any of these issues but they are all ready for a ruckus on anyones comment section!

    This is a generalization!

  14. Neihal March 13, 2007 at 7:46 am #

    phew!!!!!!
    the post and the comment section…
    well all I’d say is where do these ppl find the time to sit and ponder if females are fit for combat duties or not…..let them apply and pass the test and training if they do so good, else go back lady…..as simple as that!

  15. b v n March 13, 2007 at 7:59 pm #

    Pappan, first of all, it took a lot of time to understand like all your posts :)…then i felt like i dont know anything…i showed it some ppl…they also felt bad 🙂 I had to revisit those bharat rakshak forums and military history websites…still no clue. You are a genius!

    Alex, anything for your freedom dude 🙂

    Clash, “You utter anything against Israel- you are an anti-semite, and if you utter against ladies – MCP!” exactly what i feel ! that is the crux.

    Neihal, well your post was more balanced, I do agree. but your post instigated all this violence and you are equally responsible here. don’t talk abt time, c’mon 🙂

  16. alex March 14, 2007 at 7:15 am #

    🙂

  17. Anand K March 14, 2007 at 2:58 pm #

    Thanx BVN! 🙂

    First of all I’m sorry that I put in a lot of military lingo and acronyms without explaining them….. was pressed for time when i made the post (Psst… I was in my office.

    CAP = Combat Air Patrol
    HAW = High Altitude Warfare (In Siachen and Tawang)
    COIN = Counter Insurgency (In our NE, Naxalite areas, Kashmir Valley)

    Brecort Manor Assault = Major Richard Winters (of the Easy Company, 506 Parachute Infantry Rgt, 101st Airborne) led an assault on a very fortified German position protecting some artillery that was raining death on the Normandy beachhead….. this was very successful and is the text book case for lightly armed squad/platoon level assault on trenches and bunkers. What Lft Pandey did was similar…. except that he was alone and still neutralised almost a whole platoon of Pakis in those bunkers before succumbing to his wounds.

    The point is that it’s mainly half-wit hacks like Rajat Bedi or inbedded boobs like Limbaugh that think you can win a war just by bombing someone from 60000 ft. There is a limit to the efficacy of air power, even artillery power. The Russian idea of World War 3 was to launch a “Sea of Fire” using whole FRIGGIN’ CORPS of artillery and pick of the survivors with their Armor…. it worked very well against the Wehrmacht in the Eastern Front of WW2. The 3 Nazi armies were annihilated by 15000 Katyushka Barrages and countless artillery pieces. But even they knew that without actual infantry to flush out survivors, kill resistance pockets, police the area and hold the gains…. all that firepower amounts to maybe half an ounce of steaming horsesh1t. The very reason the US is asking India to send a whole division to Iraq is for this precise reason…. it is an army raised to fight Soviet armor and arty in German plains, not a low intensity, painful COIN which India is UNDOUBTEDLY the master in. (It’s for the same reason that topper grads from US Jungle Ops school come to our Vairangate School for “higher education”….. including an all snake/all rat diet.)

    Hundred of thousands of human society prolly wighed the odds against the females and made them more suitable to motherhood (and less physically rigged for hard labor/hunt etc). In 7000 yrs of civilizations, men did most of the active fighting bar a very few exceptions. Now all this predisposes… or loads the dice in favor of men when it comes to CQB (Close Quarter Battle). Given a amle and female who had received similar training and possess similar reflexes, who do you think will win in hand to hand combat or jousting with bayonets?

    Similarly, one must note that in selection to AF, body measurements are taken, skeletal ratios calculated…. and even if all checks out if your thigh to shin ratio is outside a whisker thin region, they unceremoniously kick you outta the fighter wing and make you haul fat-ass Antonovs or choppers. This is because the Migs were designed for males of certain ethnicities (like men from Central Asia or Asian Russia were preferred in Tank Corps) and if the aspirant doesn’t confirm to such nearly-eugenic standards, out you go. As simple as that!
    Now if you want to put women in the fighters, it is well and good…. but
    1)Can they (henceforth, *they* refers to an overwhelming majority and note freaks of nature like Vaijayanthi IPS or Auto Shanti) open the notoriously difficult canopy
    2)Can they fit into the ejection seats and stay put for 12 hour missions?
    3)Can they wrestle with the difficult joystick and controls
    4)Will combat (and peacetime duty) be affected by periods, PMS.

    These questions have to be carefully addressed, studies made and if they are all satisfied…. women will be inducted to the fighter wings in large numbers.
    Now they can’t and they SHOULD NOT be sent in just because it is the political toast of the season…. I mentioned Omar Khalidi and Sachar committee because they are asking for communal reservations in critical sectors like Defense…. which in my opinion is: ” in that way, madness lies” (though I grudgingly support reservations for OBCs and SC/STs. Especially in the IAF, which has limited aircraft, you can’t make political experiments just for the heck of it! The US or Russia have AFs 5 times our number and can afford an experiment or two in their fighter wings (which I believe is happening with limited induction of women in the *strike* wings… AFAIK, there ain’t women in interceptors or in the whole carrier based USN air fleet AND the US Marine Corps Air Wing)

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